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Wow!

Postby Glennosuke » Mon Sep 29, 2003 23:06 +0000

Facinating reading! Many thanks to all who contributed!! 8)
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Postby ziritrion » Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:45 +0000

You might find this interesting. Original source: http://www.geocities.com/paisvascohistoria/Euskara.html . Free translation (parts of the page) by myself. Sorry, I know it's not a very good translation, but I suck at direct translating :( .

"EUSKARA (Basque language).

(...) Euskara is, at least, 7000 years old. According to the latest investigations, it belonged to a group of Eurasic (trans?) languages which were found throughout all Europe and parts of Asia. Euskara has cultural words extended throughout the Mediterranean by the spreaders of the farming Neolitic (millenium IV b.C) and afterwards byt the first metal-forging civilitzations (millenium III b.C). The study of obscure words present in romanic languages and especially conservative regions, like the Alps, as well as in Berber dialects, shows results when a connection can be established with a Basque word.

In the 2nd millenium b.C, the Indoeuropeans (from whom the current Latins, Germanics, Slavonics, Celtics, Greeks... come from), arrived to Western Europe from their original source in the northern steppes of Ukrania and Russia, using horses as riding vehicles as the medium of their expansion, or, as some historians point out nowadays, the increasing of the Black Sea's water level, when the Mediterranean invaded it and became a sea instead of a lake. A more recent theory considers that their original source was found at the Anatolia peninsula (nowadays Turkey). Their generalized settlement in Europe made that the languages and people related to Basque disappeared, being Euskara and the Caucasian languages the only survivors of these ancient group of languages. It is known that throughout Europe, some languages similar to Euskara were spoken, since there are very arcaic toponyms in some isolated zones of the Alps and other European zones very conservative linguistically, whose original meaning can be unraveled using the Basque language.

(...)

Through history, Basque has gathered and extended its vocabulary as it met other civilizations, keeping these words, in most cases, in their original form, just like they were taken from the original language. The fact that some words which can be found in the pyramids of Egypt, or in the language of the Saharian Tuaregs, can be found in the everyday talk of any Basque-speaking person is very significant. Fact that could have its origins in the secular relationship with a Preindoeuropean civilization of a more recent presence in the Iberian peninsula, the Iberians. A civilization that had contact with different civilizations of Africa and Europe. Through its commercial relationships whith these civilizations, they acquired words that later on would be part of Euskara due to its vicinity with the Iberians.

(...) Some linguists think thae Iberian, Ligurian, Etruscan, the Caucasian languages, Euskara and the Preindoeuropeans languages that generally were spoken in Europe before the Indoeuropean expansion were part of the same Preindoeuropean group in a remote past, tens of thousands of years ago. This common origin with so many years caused, according to them, this great gap between these languages, which almost makes them unrecognizable as a part of the same linguistic group.

Euskara, although it has never been in contact with the Berber dialects sopken in Magreb (Northern Africa), has words similar to these dialects, introduced in Euskara through Iberian or possibly, through nomadic people of Camitic (trans?) origin who could have settled in the Basque country in the Neolitic. People who, as time went by, could have blended with those of Basque language, leaving as an evidence of their existence the words that they bequeathed. This way, the existence of Berber, Guanche (Canary Islands), Somali, Ethiopic, or ancient Egyptian words in Euskara could be explained (allthese languages are Camitic). Due to these similarities between Camitic and Basque words, a Basque-Berber theory was made, which said that Basque was related to Berber. A theory that was discarded years ago since the only similarities between both languages are only lexical (trans?) and lexicographical, whereas syntactically and gramatically they do not have any resemblance, although they do have when observed in the verbal articulation, the use of very similar particles, so it's considered more plausible the theory of an emigration in old times of nomadic people of Camitic origin to Basque zones, who later on would blend with the Euskara-speaking people they'd find there.

Euskara has a few loans from other languages like Arabic, Germanic or Celtic. It had contact with celtic since 8th century b.C. until centuries II - V A.D.

Latin is the language that most influenced Euskara when it arrived to the Basque country, back in the year 196 b.C. (...)"

This is mostly the part of the article relating to Euskara. The article goes on explaining Basque customs, religion, etc... but I can't translate it right now because I'm running out of time (gotta go to class :P ) and I haven't finished reading it. If I find something remarkable (similarities to Ainu customs, etc...) I'll make sure to post it. Sorry about the density of the article, I had lots of trouble translating it (now I'm sure that I don't want to become a translator in the future, it's HARD!).

My opinions: it seems like the Basques were part of a bigger civilization which disappeared due to the Indoeuropean expansion. Most likely, part of this civilization went east instead of west and ended up in Hokkaido. However, that wouldn't explain the similarities between both languages nowadays (languages evolve very quickly, it's unlikely that two languages separated by thousands of miles keep any similarities after thousands of years).

I suspect space aliens; apart from the "Basques are everywhere" effect, it's hard to figure how Finnish and Korean are linguistically related without a flyin saucer transporting folks around neolithic Eurasia.


Why not? Could be. However, I can't stop thinking of Stargate when I think of aliens creating the civilizations of Earth ;) . I've also heard a similar theory regarding the origin-existence of Atlantis: aliens would have taught some Preindoeuropean civilization about technology, science, etc... and this civilization would have settled in an island supposedly placed in the Atlantic Ocean. This civilization would have made colonies in America (Premayans, I believe they're called Mexica), Africa (Egypt) and Europe (Minoic civilization, in the island of Crete, Greece). I can't say how much of this theory is true since I heard it from a friend and I haven't done any research into it.
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Postby Guest » Thu Oct 16, 2003 2:37 +0000

ziritrion wrote:Interesting read.

One Japanese anthropologist did say to Brace," I hope you are wrong."


This confirms that whenever a new theory which defies a pre-established belief shows up, some people will refuse to considerate it as a valid argument just because it's "wrong". Fanatism sucks :( .

OFF-TOPIC: how do you quote something with "someone wrote:" instead of "quote:"? Am I too dumb to figure out?


Wait till someone tells these Japanese guys that the Earth is round. HOO BOY!
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Postby Glennosuke » Wed Oct 22, 2003 22:11 +0000

Heh. You should have heard what some Japanese anthropologists said about us Nikkei! (Japanese Americans) :?
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Postby Qion » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:47 +0000

Glennosuke wrote:Heh. You should have heard what some Japanese anthropologists said about us Nikkei! (Japanese Americans) :?

That should be interesing! Go ahead.

Man, the whole Basque- Ainu case is really weird and fascinatig! I can't wait for more stuff 'bout it!
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