Religion in Usagi Y.

Usagi · Post by **Usagi** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 20:23 -0700

Well, as you guys know- Im not a Usagi Y. storyline knower

And I just thought. is there- Or would there ever be some kind of Relugous stuff in the comics? Like a Shrine or something?.....

goandal · Post by **goandal** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:01 -0700

I don't think that would be appropriate, because religion is a sensitive issue.

Maybe there are subtle religious themes in UY.

Stan Sakai · Post by **Stan Sakai** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:13 -0700

Actually, there have been quite a few stories with religious undertones from the various temples that Usagi has stayed in to the jizo figures at the side of the roads. Some are very subtle, others (like the one that dealt with the secret Christians) are the main focus of the story. Grasscutter tells a lot about the origins of Shinto, the first religion of Japan.

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 13:17 -0700

Which issues dealt with the secret Christians? I'd be interested to read those.

Usagi · Post by **Usagi** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 0:07 -0700

goandal wrote:I don't think that would be appropriate, because religion is a sensitive issue.

Maybe there are subtle religious themes in UY.

Oh no Im not speeking of this in a debating way or bad- just like what stan said above- Sorry if you missupderstood

Post by **Mayhem** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:35 -0700

Andy wrote:Which issues dealt with the secret Christians? I'd be interested to read those.

There was one recently... issue #77 or something.

Usagi · Post by **Usagi** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:41 -0700

Ohhhh that Secret Christian one #77 looks good- Im gonna have to keep my eyes out for that one!

Redwall Templar · Post by **Redwall Templar** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 16:17 -0700

I"ll say it was good. I hadn't expected it at all. Amazing how a single issue story can have such punch at the end. It is historicly interesting to and never thought I'd see the Christian missionaries mentioned at all in the pages of Usagi depspite the it being partly the reasons why Japan back then sealed its borders to traders outside of Japan. Is my memory mistaken that it was Tokugawa-Ieyasu who placed the ban on international trade?

Stan Sakai · Post by **Stan Sakai** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 17:18 -0700

"Contraband" was featured in UY #76.

The story notes told a brief history of Christianity in early Japan, including a paragraph on the Shimabara Rebellion in 1637 in which 38,000 people, mostly Christians, were killed.

Ieyasu Tokugawa clamped down on the foreign influences in Japan. International trade was not eliminated, but everything was done to stamp out Christianity. It was thought that the religion could unify disgruntled lords against the shogunate.

Redwall Templar · Post by **Redwall Templar** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 17:24 -0700

Was it that the westerners wouldn't trade unless missionary churches were esablished or was there more to it than that?

Stan Sakai · Post by **Stan Sakai** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 18:31 -0700

Redwall Templar wrote:Was it that the westerners wouldn't trade unless missionary churches were esablished or was there more to it than that?

There was much more to it than that. After all, when it comes to trade money comes before God. It was Tokugawa that stopped much of the trade with the Westerners. He wanted to solidify his power so cut off the foreign influences. Also, there was conflict between Spain and Portugal, and between the Jesuits and Franciscans which he did not want to spill over into his country.

Usagi · Post by **Usagi** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 13:46 -0700

cynlee bought me, Issue #76- it begun mainly as Usagi passing on a "package" to this one girl, Ayane, because he stumbled apon the death of her father, who was running from anothrites.

From this, I have questions. If Foreign trade was done between the West and Japan. Why would "the port anthorities" have a problum with the contrys exspantion to the foregn trade market? If Japan Opend its doors to the outside world.

Was Japan scard that the thought of the spread of Christiananity a threat to their country?...And Would the "Spreading of Gods word"- be one of the main reassions why the West went to East. To Mosly spread their religon?

But- Why would someone want to give up thier own Faith (being Budhist/Shinto Ect)-- To convert to a faith that what most people, in my oppinion, would find a little questioning if you never hurd of it?...

From this Issue, the one Man, "Hirata the fish-manger"- was passed on the package- but told Usagi to keep quite about it.- The japanese had to stay quite about their convertion to Catholicism?.....So.....how were they able to Practice the faith, or spread it themeselves...if the anothoritys were agenced that?...Dose the next Issue #77 Exsplain more?

Post by **digulla** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 18:25 -0700

You are looking at the problem with the eyes of the 21th century.

In these times (upto 1800), religion was a tool for power. So the monks, bibles and information sent to Japan between the first contact and 1635 (when all christians in Japan were killed or converted), were used to undermine the authority of the government.

So basically, it wasn't the religion itself that was causing the trouble but the political games behind it. Telling the Japanese population (most not really educated peasants) that there is just one god (traditionally, Japan knows 15 Million different ikami which roughly translates into gods, heroes and supernatural beings) and that the tenno<emperor> is not a descendend of the gods (and thus, the shogun isn't approved by god) is dangerous.

This together with the traditional view of the Japanese population that a life wasn't worth much could easily lead to rebellion (and it did).

Of course, the shogun played the same games. In the end, he got what he wanted and anyone, who could pose a threat to his rule was killed or banished from the land.

During 1600, things started to boil. The priests and monks (which were in fact more like political activists first and men of the cloth second) tried to push christian-friendly daimyo into power. These of course were mostly men who were not on the side of the shogun (otherwise, they wouldn't have to plot with outsiders).

Later, this rebellion (that's what it really was and not about Jesus and the Word) was quenched quite brutally.

This is also the reason, why the Dutch could keep their outpost in Nagasaki: They never tried to use their position to make politics.

Once, they were ordered to demolish their warehouses. Instead of arguing and complaining, the man in charge had all wares brought to their ships and take the buildings down to the last stone well within the time he was given my the order.

The next day, the shogunate rewarded this with the artificial island in the harbor of Nagasaki along with on monopoly on the foreign trade. Everybody else had to leave immediately and was threatened to be killed on return.

Redwall Templar · Post by **Redwall Templar** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:19 -0700

Accually, not meaning to stray even marginaly from the topic but, even in the 21 Century religion is still used as a tool. And while I'm not sure of Japan's 21st Century outlook, a similar thing does occour in other countries where christianity does try and convert and "save from sin" in other countries. Two particular individuals were inprisoned in the middle-east for several months and when released came back to the States and had/has every intention of going back to start all over again.

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 19:11 -0700

Deplorable things have been done throughout history in the name of "missionary" work. However, I don't see anything wrong with someone who wants to present the information regarding their religion to someone else so that the person can either accept it or reject it. It is their choice, and I'm sure there have been some who were very thankful for the one from another land who came and presented what they now accept as Truth.

To me it seems horrible that one would be imprisoned for doing what those two you mentioned did. I'm glad we live in a country where we have freedom of speech, choice and religion.