Animals in UY Universe

[Mayhem]

Mariko is a rabbit as well.

[jabba359]

Interesting. Her ears are so much smaller than Usagi's that I thought she must have been a different animal.

[jabba359]

Okay, sorry for the thread bump, but the thing I was thinking about is referenced in this thread.

At Stan's panel for the Usagi 35th anniversary, he talked about his plan for Nilson and the rise of the humans (which I had heard before), but one thing I don't recall hearing before is that the humans arose from goblins (if I'm remembering correctly, "goblins" was the term used in the presentation).

I've been interested in the humans in the Usagi universe, as we have seen them from time to time: Hikiji (Lone Rabbit and Child) is human, there is a human samurai at the end of Bounty Hunter, Ocho (Village of Fear) takes on the form of a human and Usagi doesn't find that paricularly out of place, and Calvin (from Calvin and Hobbes) makes an appearance in The Tower. So we know humans: a) exist in the Usagi universe and, b) though not often seen, they're not so rare as to cause any sort of special notice or comments from all the anthropomorphs .

Okay, to tie these together, I've been revisiting some of the Fantagraphics issues and as I read the very first story, The Goblin of Adachigahara, I noticed something interesting. Now, maybe I'm forgetting an appearance by General Toda in some other story that establishes that he's an animal, but I find it interesting that his wife says "Each night he went alone into the mountains and each dawn he returned with a little less of his humanity." Now, that choice of wording may have been for lack of a better term, but if you recall that Usagi theoretically exists in the same universe as Nilson where humans evolved from goblins, and consider that as Toda loses his "humanity" he devolves [back?] into a goblin, then it makes sense to me that Toda might be a human. That might also explain part of the reason he became a traitor to Lord Mifune to join Lord Hikiji; perhaps he felt a kinship because they shared the somewhat unique trait of being a human?

[maichan]

This sounds like a job for Inspector Ishida!!

Other than that, I like your reasoning. It sounds very plausible to me.

[Maka]

Nice theory, Kyle.

Not to burst your bubble, but I seem to remember in several interviews that he regrets that he drew Hikiji as a human. Also, those other "humans" seem to be more of tributes to other comic strips characters that Stan probably enjoyed. Even Groo made an appearance. .

But that doesn't mean I'm right. Also the creator always has the right to change history and tie panels from the past to stories of the future. Your idea of humans devolving into goblins is great. I'd like to see how Calvin (and Hobbes) devolves.

Peace, maka

[Mayhem]

Not to burst your bubble, but I seem to remember in several interviews that he regrets that he drew Hikiji as a human. Also, those other "humans" seem to be more of tributes to other comic strips characters that Stan probably enjoyed. Even Groo made an appearance. .

I might be recalling incorrectly here, I thought it was not that he drew Hikiji as a human, but that he showed him properly in a panel?

[coolray85]

hey, this is an interesting conversation here! really interesting idea that humans devolved into goblins..
I remember reading stan's comment on drawing hikiji as human the way mayhem just noted, but I am not 100 per cent sure.

[jabba359]

hey, this is an interesting conversation here! really interesting idea that humans devolved into goblins..
I remember reading stan's comment on drawing hikiji as human the way mayhem just noted, but I am not 100 per cent sure.

Nilson Groundthumper was supposed to be about the rise of the humans, who (if I remember correctly) evolved from goblins. I don't think the reverse (humans devolving into goblins) was necessarily part of that. My point with Toda was that if goblins turned into humans, then there is at least some logic in the reverse happening as he loses his humanity, with him returning to the original form from which humanity sprung (assuming Toda is human). Of course, if Toda isn't human, then my speculation of the human/goblin relationship completely falls apart.

[estee]

Okay not sure if I remember this correctly. But I recall Stan saying that if two different 'species' have children a son resembles the father and a daughter resembles the mother.

i.e. If Usagi and Chizu have kids, a son would be a rabbit and a daughter would be a cat.

Anyone else remember this coming up?

[Angilasman]

^ That would be the same rule as with Muppets. Look at Muppet Christmas Carol: Miss Piggy and Kermit have pig daughters and frog sons.

[estee]

hey, this is an interesting conversation here! really interesting idea that humans devolved into goblins..
I remember reading stan's comment on drawing hikiji as human the way mayhem just noted, but I am not 100 per cent sure.

Nilson Groundthumper was supposed to be about the rise of the humans, who (if I remember correctly) evolved from goblins. I don't think the reverse (humans devolving into goblins) was necessarily part of that. My point with Toda was that if goblins turned into humans, then there is at least some logic in the reverse happening as he loses his humanity, with him returning to the original form from which humanity sprung (assuming Toda is human). Of course, if Toda isn't human, then my speculation of the human/goblin relationship completely falls apart.

I always felt that the characters consider themselves human, with human emotions. They even refer to each other as 'men' and 'women'. They have no concept of, nor have they ever acknowledged their supposed 'anthropomorphism'.

So when Toda loses his 'humanity' it isn't really a physical reversion, but a spiritual one. He betrayed Mifune and was then betrayed by Hikiji. So for his sins he was transformed into a monster.

[coolray85]

I find the ideas behind this conversation interesting as I have said, but estee has really put into words exactly how I view the usagi characters and world myself...losing his 'humanity' is an emotional state, not a literal one or even a curveball into that thinking box for me.

[mrmikeryan108]

It's such a clever way to get readers to relate to the characters. For me, I like different characters for their personalities and because they might be one of might favorite animals. One of my favorites is the thief Nezumi, which is a mystery besides his cat ears. I don't recall him ever being unmasked, so I'm not sure if he is really a cat or what type if cat he could be.