One thing which still needs to be taken into concideration is how to keep the parasites from just obtaining MORE sketches and such through the new source and posting even more pieces up for auction.
Since a lot of readers of Usagi Yojimbo never make it to this or any of the other comic related forums where this topic has been discussed, I think a letter or editorial in the letter column of an issue of Usagi discussing the situation might go a long ways to inform potential bidders against buying from the unethical ebay sellers.
It is a shame that some of these convention scavengers take advantage of the artists who's work they sell, but on the other hand, some of the scarcer things given away at conventions are only available later on through some of these dealers, such as the kite festival posters which ebay seller "gopromoman" occasionally puts up for auction. New readers looking for the older collectables don't have vary many options for getting the free items from previous years.
It is one of those situations where it is hard to draw a straight line between black and white or right and wrong. The parasites like comicmonster do have to go!
Unscrupulous people
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Steve Hubbell
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morna-san
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To me there's a world of difference between a mass produced item - like a poster or even one of David's sketchbooks - and an original piece of art done specifically for a person. Posters are produced in quantity for promotional purposes and re-sale of them is just a perpetuation of the promotion - a successful advertisement and a benefit to the publisher and the artist being promoted. Sketchbooks are sold by the artists and once sold are the property of the buyer. No matter how personalized these things get - with signatures and drawings and even personalized notes - their prime function is still promotion. It benefits the artist and maintains excitement in the work... much as albedo #2 going for a thousand bucks! It's all good.
BUT an original piece is vastly different in my world view. They are made in the spirit of generosity and a gift to the fan who adores the work of the artist. The artist gives this to his fans freely as a thank-you for the support. To acquire these in numbers and sell them for a profit is unthinkable. It is dishonourable and unethical and... and .. well it drives me nuts!
I would support any sensible measure to stop this from happening. I still think education of the potential buyers is the best policy. Not sure if I'd want to see it in a comic. Although as a letter from a fan - maybe. And actually on this website would be a good place.
hmmmm....
BUT an original piece is vastly different in my world view. They are made in the spirit of generosity and a gift to the fan who adores the work of the artist. The artist gives this to his fans freely as a thank-you for the support. To acquire these in numbers and sell them for a profit is unthinkable. It is dishonourable and unethical and... and .. well it drives me nuts!
I would support any sensible measure to stop this from happening. I still think education of the potential buyers is the best policy. Not sure if I'd want to see it in a comic. Although as a letter from a fan - maybe. And actually on this website would be a good place.
hmmmm....
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I love him when he's pissed off
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I love him when he's pissed off
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Todd Shogun
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I agree with Morna-san, I've got nothing against auctioning off mass produced products like posters, sketchbooks and the like, once free or otherwise. Such items become collectibles themselves eventually. I recently bought a chirashi (Japanese mini movie poster) for The Dark Crystal off eBay. Most likely this thing was a freebie way back when the movie was released in Japan. I ended up buying it for $10. Money well spent!
Steve, I agree, many of the methods we discussed involve the likelihood of these parasitic scoundrels obtaining more of Stan's sketches to flip. That's the downside. Your idea of making the readers and fans aware through the UY letter column is a great idea. Maybe we need to take the matter up with Stan and Diana...
Steve, I agree, many of the methods we discussed involve the likelihood of these parasitic scoundrels obtaining more of Stan's sketches to flip. That's the downside. Your idea of making the readers and fans aware through the UY letter column is a great idea. Maybe we need to take the matter up with Stan and Diana...
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Stan Sakai
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I know what Diana would say, and, in many ways, I would agree with her: The last thing we need is to let the word out that Stan does free sketches.Todd Shogun wrote:
Your idea of making the readers and fans aware through the UY letter column is a great idea. Maybe we need to take the matter up with Stan and Diana...
She thinks I do too many free stuff as it is, and she acts as a buffer between me and the many requests I receive for art, books, and merchandise whether it be for personal collections, conventions, or charities. I spent one full week this month working on freebie projects. I don't do it every month--about three times a year--but that is three weeks I could be working on Usagi. She's a terrific editor, and sometimes scolds me for some of the stuff I've agreed to do.
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Mayhem
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Your spirit of generosity Stan is part of what makes us so happy to know you 
The fact you do commissioned pieces in the first place too... whilst the money is nice, I am presuming seeing our smiling happy faces when we receive it is probably a bigger reward?
Which is why people selling off the small sketches like this isn't a very nice thing because as stated, it takes advantage of that generosity. Selling off the big artwork pieces, commisions and the posters, sketchbooks etc I have no problem with because the person paid money to acquire it in the first place and hence they have a right to do what with it in the future.
Though that also applies to the freebie sketches, it's a different morality in my book.
Should I make it to San Diego next year, then I'll be asking for another commision (or two) and gratefully taking it into my possession in due time
The fact you do commissioned pieces in the first place too... whilst the money is nice, I am presuming seeing our smiling happy faces when we receive it is probably a bigger reward?
Which is why people selling off the small sketches like this isn't a very nice thing because as stated, it takes advantage of that generosity. Selling off the big artwork pieces, commisions and the posters, sketchbooks etc I have no problem with because the person paid money to acquire it in the first place and hence they have a right to do what with it in the future.
Though that also applies to the freebie sketches, it's a different morality in my book.
Should I make it to San Diego next year, then I'll be asking for another commision (or two) and gratefully taking it into my possession in due time
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sschroeder
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Guys, we live in a different world since the rise of ebay, and we better face it. Now there is a market (or at least a potential auction) for anything that can be pried from its moorings and put in the mail. You or I might frown on it, but it isn't unscrupulous unless fakes are getting peddled. It certainly isn't even remotely illegal as far as I know.
Freebie sketches probably used to have little value because there was no efficient way to find buyers once you got them home. Ebay has totally changed this. And it isn't just for art. Celebrities or athletes who sign something for free risk it selling on ebay. But they might make enough money not to care.
Artists could do what athletes have done. And that is retreat to pushing authenticated items as the only ones with true value since others could be fake.
When you think about it, surely someone could ape Stan's style for a sketch and try to pass it off. Can he really remember every doodle and prove it? Maybe. But it would take a ton of effort to police it. And I'd rather see him producing Usagi issues instead of worrying about this. People buying these sketches are risking that they are not real.
And I disagree with those saying this is different from Usagi first appearances, for example, selling for hundreds of dollars. How is it remotely different? Those items sold for a couple of bucks at first, and Stan doesn't see a dime from these huge ebay sales in the present and future. In fact ebay sees more money from them than Stan does. Stan had a chance to set a price on these items when he set them free in the market for the first time, just like everybody else when they do something or perform a service.
When I do a favor for somebody, there is a chance they might never do one for me in return. That's life. And it is not by any means a reason for me not to do favors for people once in a while. Most of the time doing favors for people pays off.
And another point. These sketches are not really free in many cases. Conventions have entry fees, parking fees, etc. It costs quite a few dollars to even get a sketch.
Freebie sketches probably used to have little value because there was no efficient way to find buyers once you got them home. Ebay has totally changed this. And it isn't just for art. Celebrities or athletes who sign something for free risk it selling on ebay. But they might make enough money not to care.
Artists could do what athletes have done. And that is retreat to pushing authenticated items as the only ones with true value since others could be fake.
When you think about it, surely someone could ape Stan's style for a sketch and try to pass it off. Can he really remember every doodle and prove it? Maybe. But it would take a ton of effort to police it. And I'd rather see him producing Usagi issues instead of worrying about this. People buying these sketches are risking that they are not real.
And I disagree with those saying this is different from Usagi first appearances, for example, selling for hundreds of dollars. How is it remotely different? Those items sold for a couple of bucks at first, and Stan doesn't see a dime from these huge ebay sales in the present and future. In fact ebay sees more money from them than Stan does. Stan had a chance to set a price on these items when he set them free in the market for the first time, just like everybody else when they do something or perform a service.
When I do a favor for somebody, there is a chance they might never do one for me in return. That's life. And it is not by any means a reason for me not to do favors for people once in a while. Most of the time doing favors for people pays off.
And another point. These sketches are not really free in many cases. Conventions have entry fees, parking fees, etc. It costs quite a few dollars to even get a sketch.
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Becky-Chan
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I think this can be responded to in one simple phrase;
"Respect the Artist's Wishes"
While selling these free items is not illegal, it is considered rude to MANY artists. They are there for the fans, they are not there to provide free stock to an ebay store. Which is why more and more artists and even athletes are taking steps to nip these bilkers in the bud while still being able to give the fans little thank yous for their support. If you know an artist doesn't like his free stuff being sold less than 24 hours after you got it from him/her don't be shocked if your reputation as an 'art dealer' goes down the toilet.
"Respect the Artist's Wishes"
While selling these free items is not illegal, it is considered rude to MANY artists. They are there for the fans, they are not there to provide free stock to an ebay store. Which is why more and more artists and even athletes are taking steps to nip these bilkers in the bud while still being able to give the fans little thank yous for their support. If you know an artist doesn't like his free stuff being sold less than 24 hours after you got it from him/her don't be shocked if your reputation as an 'art dealer' goes down the toilet.
Becky-Chan (AKA ShadowWing, SW2)
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shaxper
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I agree with both points, here. Selling free sketches doesn't really hurt the artist anymore than selling a back issue (neither will pay the artist's bills), but selling free sketches is deceitful to the artist. They take valuable time to make these sketches for the sake of a fan, not a disinterested person's profit margin.
Last time I saw Stan, I asked him to sign a stack of Usagi issues for me, and I was so pleased that he said yes. It took a few minutes of his time, and I felt a bit guilty, but it meant the world to me. Had I turned around and sold those issues, I would have been making Stan work for my profit, and that's just wrong. I consider myself very fortunate that Stan trusted me enough to assume I wanted these issues for myself. He'd never even met me before. That's the kind of amazing generosity that these selfish people are discouraging through their actions.
Last time I saw Stan, I asked him to sign a stack of Usagi issues for me, and I was so pleased that he said yes. It took a few minutes of his time, and I felt a bit guilty, but it meant the world to me. Had I turned around and sold those issues, I would have been making Stan work for my profit, and that's just wrong. I consider myself very fortunate that Stan trusted me enough to assume I wanted these issues for myself. He'd never even met me before. That's the kind of amazing generosity that these selfish people are discouraging through their actions.
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Steve Hubbell
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Re: Unscrupulous people
The ebay parasite "comicmonster" has a new auction up for a freebie sketch, a magnetic bookmark, and a copy of issue #100, all starting at $9.99 again.Todd Shogun wrote:The following is an eBay auction of one of Stan's free convention sketches.
eBay Auction
Initial bid price of $10. There was a discussion about this over on the UYD Mailing List. Very unscrupulous...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :B:SS:US:1
It is a nicely done sketch and I can't imagine anyone wanting to sell it.
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Todd Shogun
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Steve Hubbell
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Becky-Chan
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Where is he getting them all? Is he paying people to go up to Stan to get sketches since it's possible that Stan will notice the same person coming back over and over again?
I know it's common to help a fellow fan if there is a limit to autographed items, especially if it's somebody who will be in high demand. (limit of 2-3 items per person) if you have two and the person next to you has four you offer to get one of his items signed since you are under the limit. But something like this is crazy for sketches!
I was at Kansas City PlanetCon this weekend, and I even asked a few of the artists about the trend of selling free sketches. None of the artists liked it this ranged from 'bigger' name artists like Rick Burchett, Phil Hester and Andy Parks to the guys just starting out all have been trying to find ways to stop it.
I know it's common to help a fellow fan if there is a limit to autographed items, especially if it's somebody who will be in high demand. (limit of 2-3 items per person) if you have two and the person next to you has four you offer to get one of his items signed since you are under the limit. But something like this is crazy for sketches!
I was at Kansas City PlanetCon this weekend, and I even asked a few of the artists about the trend of selling free sketches. None of the artists liked it this ranged from 'bigger' name artists like Rick Burchett, Phil Hester and Andy Parks to the guys just starting out all have been trying to find ways to stop it.
Becky-Chan (AKA ShadowWing, SW2)
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