Samurai marriage

[PalmettoKnight1]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this since I'm using Usagi as an example, so I apologize if I have put it in the wrong spot.

I found some interesting things about samurai marriage after reading about the wedding of tomoe. Turns out that when a samurai was getting married other high born samurai would make sure the future bride was high born as well. This was isially done by arranging the marriage to ensure that the couple didn't date or marry outside of their social class as a high class lady marrying a low born samurai was both taboo and dishonorable. The same was true of a high born samurai marrying a peasant.

Now here's the thing: it was perfectly acceptable for low born samurai to marry peasants. In fact from what I've been able to research low born samurai actually had more freedom in their marriages than high born samurai. This was most likely a result of politics restricting the marriages of high born samurai.

Now using usagi as an example, a marriage between him and tomoe would be out of the question, no matter how much we and they wanted to, due to be fact that tomoe is a high born samurai and he's a low born one. Tomoe'a lord wouldn't be able to approve their marriage either because it would result in a major scandal and he would lose face with the other lords and the shoguns bringing dishonor and shame to him and his clan.

Now usagi could easily marry Kitsune since she's a peasant and no one would find anything wrong woth a low born samurai falling in love with a peasant although her being a thief might raise a few eyebrows.

But it seems that low born samurai, while unable to marry anyone higher up in the social ladder, didn't have to worry about arranged marriages as often as high born samurai.

What do he rest of y'all think? I did a good bit of research when looking at this so I hope I got it right.

[estee]

Yeah, the idea of Tomoe and Usagi getting hitch is pretty remote. Even when Usagi wasn't a Ronin he wasn't in her league.

But...

I've always been a Chizu/Usagi shipper.

I can see those two getting married, putting their swords away, raising a bunch of wild children and being content with the quiet life.

Until one day, Lord Noriyuki shows up at their door and asks them to take care of a problem like only they can.

[PalmettoKnight1]

Yeah, the idea of Tomoe and Usagi getting hitch is pretty remote. Even when Usagi wasn't a Ronin he wasn't in her league.

But...

I've always been a Chizu/Usagi shipper.

I can see those two getting married, putting their swords away, raising a bunch of wild children and being content with the quiet life.

Until one day, Lord Noriyuki shows up at their door and asks them to take care of a problem like only they can.

True but it also depends on what social class Chizu is part of. Social class according to my research was a deciding factor in many samurai marriages. It also affected if a mistress was right for a high born samurai. She had to be high born as well. Seems low born samurai didn't often take mistresses but this was most likely due to economics as low born samurai couldn't afford a mistress. So pretty much social class and a samurai's position determined if a marriage is possible.

Remember the story of usagi and that princess? She even stated that their respective social classes kept them from falling in love! Usagi thought of appealing the marriage to his lord but the princess even stated that his lord would refuse as he would be more concerned about the benefits of a political marriage than he would be about making one of his samurais happy. Many political marriages were loveless sadly.

And from what little I have found about ronin, they too had to follow the same restrictions and benefits as low born samurai when it came to marriages and dating. Haven't found anything about high born ronin but I'll keep looking.

Although highborn ronin probably had to marry low born women or peasants because of their status as ronin unless they entered the service of another master which would allow them to marry high born again.

[estee]

Chizu is a ninja and a masterless ninja at the moment. So she's pretty low on the old social ladder. They're perfect for each other.

[BuckRogers]

Yeah, the idea of Tomoe and Usagi getting hitch is pretty remote. Even when Usagi wasn't a Ronin he wasn't in her league.

But...

I've always been a Chizu/Usagi shipper.

I can see those two getting married, putting their swords away, raising a bunch of wild children and being content with the quiet life.

Until one day, Lord Noriyuki shows up at their door and asks them to take care of a problem like only they can.

I, also, like the pairing of Chizu with Usagi with the marriage to Tomoe being much more unlikely secondary to class/politics.

But, with the publishing of Senso, we get to see the outcomes of what had happened over the preceding 20 years so it might be difficult to have certain marriages take place now that the "20 years later" has already been written (do not want to post spoilers about the Senso series--heck, I haven't even read Issue 6 yet!).

But, on a related-but-not-related subject, have any of you seen the 2002 Japanese movie "Twilight Samurai"? Beautiful, wonderful movie that won a 13 "Japanese Oscars" and was nominated for the Best Foreign Film Oscar. Really worth the time to watch and directly addresses the issues you are speaking of here.

[PalmettoKnight1]

Yeah, the idea of Tomoe and Usagi getting hitch is pretty remote. Even when Usagi wasn't a Ronin he wasn't in her league.

But...

I've always been a Chizu/Usagi shipper.

I can see those two getting married, putting their swords away, raising a bunch of wild children and being content with the quiet life.

Until one day, Lord Noriyuki shows up at their door and asks them to take care of a problem like only they can.

I, also, like the pairing of Chizu with Usagi with the marriage to Tomoe being much more unlikely secondary to class/politics.

But, with the publishing of Senso, we get to see the outcomes of what had happened over the preceding 20 years so it might be difficult to have certain marriages take place now that the "20 years later" has already been written (do not want to post spoilers about the Senso series--heck, I haven't even read Issue 6 yet!).

But, on a related-but-not-related subject, have any of you seen the 2002 Japanese movie "Twilight Samurai"? Beautiful, wonderful movie that won a 13 "Japanese Oscars" and was nominated for the Best Foreign Film Oscar. Really worth the time to watch and directly addresses the issues you are speaking of here.

I thought senso was non canon according to an interview with Stan sakai. But anyhow, the two most likely women that usagi could marry are Kitsune and Chizu. It could go either way actually. Issue 145 might explore those two relationships in detail, but back on topic.

According to what I've read prior to the edo period samurai could marry outside of their social class, but when the edo period began and the shogun gained a lot of power samurai couldn't marry outside of their social class. To low ranking samurai arranged marriages were an option while this wasn't the case for high ranking samurai. Since ronin were already low ranking (and since they couldn't legally practice a trade) the only other option was to marry a commoner. So usagi is out of luck in marrying tomoe. Chizu and Kitsune are still options but given his fear of attracting danger to his loved ones (bridge of tears anyone?) he might be hesitant in establishing a relationship.

So in conclusion, samurai marriages were governed by social class which often led to arranged marriages to strengthen ties between families. Also samurai could marry the daughter of a merchant in order to clear his debts.

[BuckRogers]

I thought senso was non canon according to an interview with Stan sakai. But anyhow, the two most likely women that usagi could marry are Kitsune and Chizu. It could go either way actually. Issue 145 might explore those two relationships in detail, but back on topic.

Aha, you know more than I do. I had not heard that Senso was "non canon". Good to know, if it is true. Which interview did you hear that in?

[PalmettoKnight1]

Aha, you know more than I do. I had not heard that Senso was "non canon". Good to know, if it is true. Which interview did you hear that in?

Here you go: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=54807

[estee]

Senso wasn't canon...Senso was a gift from Stan to all the fans that have kept up with Usagi for thirty years. He put in all of the stuff we've talk about over those years, all of our hopes we've made for the characters we love and then chucked in some aliens for good measure. In short it was awesome.

[BuckRogers]

Senso wasn't canon...Senso was a gift from Stan to all the fans that have kept up with Usagi for thirty years. He put in all of the stuff we've talk about over those years, all of our hopes we've made for the characters we love and then chucked in some aliens for good measure. In short it was awesome.

Yup, so glad to hear that as I have absolutely loved the first 5 issues of Senso but was a bit melancholy about the lost chances at love/life that Usagi and Tomoe and everyone had sacrificed over the prior 15 to 20 years to end up where they were in Senso.

From the interview:

I loved the first issue of "Senso" and do you think of this as canon or an imaginary story? I love that phrase, imaginary story, but I think you know what I mean.

Yes, all the stories are imaginary. [Laughs]

When it gets printed it won't be part of the "Usagi Yojimbo" numbered volumes. It will be its own book, "Usagi Yojimbo: Senso." So in that sense, it's not canon. I guess it is an imaginary story. It's not part of the Usagi storyline. The Usagi storyline is based on Japanese culture and history. Martians invading Japan is not part of history. [Laughs] That's what it is."

Thanks all and good night, sleep well!

[PalmettoKnight1]

Cool! I actually enjoyed reading that interview. When senso comes out in May I'm looking forward to it! So does anyone else have anything to add to this research on samurai marriages? I know I probably missed something.