Harry Turtledove and Alternate-history

Redwall Templar · Post by **Redwall Templar** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 20:03 -0700

I brought this authors name up at the Redwall discission, so I thought it'd be best to create a section for it, as people seem to be familier with this writer.

Someone, elsewhere had mentioned Turtledove's the series where reptile like aliens invade Earth during WW2. A friend of mine who read all of them, really enjoyed them and seems glad to have read it. For the person who seemed not too fond of the series, Turtledove seems to have wrapped it all up in a book that is coming out not too long from now.

He's been focusing on his other series stemming from "The Great War" trilogy. No aliens in there. I am in the scond book of this series, the 4th book of his I have read.

The first one of his I ever read is "Guns Of The South". Real good. First time reading the language and slang of the time was shocking I must say, as I am not accustom to utilizing demeaning terms for verious demographics.

Who else like Turtledove and/or Alternate history fiction?

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 21:04 -0700

I'm not familiar with his work at all. It sounds interesting though. I'd be willing to give it a try.

miyamoto musashi · Thu Nov 25, 2004 14:43 -0700

i hated the reptile-ww2-alien thing. its like he went temporarily insane.

Redwall Templar · Post by **Redwall Templar** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 15:28 -0700

So how do you feel about Guns of The South then,, since you don't like the reptiles in the 1940's? Because, 'he went insane' doesn't help me understand your displeasure of the alien invasion plotline.

miyamoto musashi · Thu Nov 25, 2004 20:28 -0700

i just find it silly, not really bad, just silly.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 22:21 -0700

So do you like The great War Series, and the Prelude to it, How Few Remain? And the followup trilogies to them?

takematsu · Post by **takematsu** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 14:54 -0700

Haven't read any Turtledove, so I can't comment on it-- the the only serious alternate reality book I can think of right now is Philip K. Dick's The Man in the High Castle, which posits a world in which the US stayed sullenly out of WWII, and thus Japan and Das Reich are the world's super-powers. Pretty good, but you occasionally have to remind yourself that the world it's set in is at the same date at which it's written, so WWII is a lot more recent than we feel is it. Good stuff, if Dick's prose style works for you.

The Gary Sinese movie Impostor was based on one of his stories. If you like the way it undermines one's sense of self and reality, you'll probably dig his books.

Redwall Templar · Post by **Redwall Templar** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 21:58 -0700

I have heard of this book a few a couple of years ago, though never have I read it, for no other reason other than I have so many others I want to read before I get to that one.

There is a great thing about Harry Turtledove. first he is an educated historian and it shows. Through this he creates such description of the time frames that it is easy to visualize. Some people have problems that characterisation isn't so strong as it is in most novels. This much I expected when I begin to read his stories anyway. If it didn't focus enough on differences, it probably wouldn't much feel like an alternate timeline.

That is not to say the characters are 2-dimesional. They are vital to the story as the plot effects not a small cluster or demographic. Characters from the lower class all the way up to the upper class are effected by the changes of the world around them and they are never archtypes. The Great War if judging by this one book and its prologue 'How Few Remain' should wind up to be a very interesting saga before it ends....then its on to its follow up trilogy. From what I have seen of his works, this timeline is his most worked on. It has at least 3 trilogies to it. In American Front it is 1914 Ad and the Confederate States of America still remain and they are allied with the British and French. The northern states are allied with Germany. Theodore Roosevelt is preseident of the North and Woodrow Wilson president of the South. Custer is still alive, never making that foolish ride into the valley where he cost the life of not only himself but others as well. Though in the novel he's just as arrogent, though older.

takematsu · Post by **takematsu** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:15 -0700

Another good one just bubbled to the surface of my sad old brain-- The Difference Engine by Gibson and Sterling. Early Victorian-era England, full of steam-driven mechanical computers. Good fun, generally convincing, and only occasionally depressing.

Redwall Templar · Post by **Redwall Templar** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 16:25 -0700

I can't say I ever heard of the Difference Engine. Other than what you stated whatelse is different, how does it cause history to unfold differently?

I just got through with Turtledove's American Front last night. I have to say not all but, some of the characters, are quite racist. I do not mean Harry Turtledove himself is, just to make it clear but, the language indicates the very open racism of that era. The timeline may have changed but the people havn't. My eyes must have looked a little something like this when I first encountered it in the book......

I just had to keep reminding myself, hes portraying how things can be, have been throughout history. I think it helps those who don't personaly experience it, understand. Not to mention to sugar-coat it sort of would be demeaning, inpart it would be ignoring what has transpired; Pretending it didn't happen. I caution people with this who may be too squeemish of it before I go loaning it out. For me, it is the only way to understand how bad things can be without personaly experiencing it.

takematsu · Post by **takematsu** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:24 -0700

Other than what you stated whatelse is different, how does it cause history to unfold differently?

GB is *the* superpower, as of 1860. They use their clout to keep the tiny United and Confederate states in America at each other's throat. Every gentleman has a credit card. There's a presistent theme of mysterious criminals seeking possession of a program (in the form of a large stack of punched cards). It's essentially a steam-driven cyberpunk novel-- similar in tone to the print version of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Redwall Templar · Post by **Redwall Templar** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 18:08 -0700

Makes me wish my line up of books-to-read weren't so long already.

On a side note, I hope I am not making the forums too grim with this section on a series that deals with important and very serious issues. This is by far the most pleasent forums out on the internet and I'd hate to spoil it.

I like to talk about interesting things here as discussion unfolds intelligently without 'flaming' or meaningless posts.

As an Usagi fan I have to ask.....anyone ever wonder what would have come of Japan had the Tokugawa continued its rule into the next century and how it would have effected the rest of the world? Does anyone know if such a story has been told? I think that would be interesting.

takematsu · Post by **takematsu** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 14:39 -0700

anyone ever wonder what would have come of Japan had the Tokugawa continued its rule into the next century and how it would have effected the rest of the world?

I suspect Korea (occupied 1910-1945) and China (occupied 1936-1945) would have a lot fewer issues regarding Japan. Philips would have had to have found someone other than Sony to effectively market all their cool home electronics (like CD players). WWII may have ended more quickly, or dragged on for ages-- depending if the US got involved or not, and on which side they enter (there were fascist supporters there prior to 1941, and democracy is a funny way to run a country...). Whole lotta possiblilities, and I suspect Japan wouldn't like a lot of it.

Redwall Templar · Post by **Redwall Templar** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 14:46 -0700

Any readers out there who have read Days of Infamy by Turtledove. It came out last year and it is a story in which Japan takes over Hawii after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The book came out sometime late last year in hardcover.

Havn't read it yet but, I was wondering if anyone else has or is reading it.

cynlee · Post by **cynlee** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 22:38 -0700

Redwall Templar wrote:Makes me wish my line up of books-to-read weren't so long already.

On a side note, I hope I am not making the forums too grim with this section on a series that deals with important and very serious issues. This is by far the most pleasent forums out on the internet and I'd hate to spoil it.

I like to talk about interesting things here as discussion unfolds intelligently without 'flaming' or meaningless posts.

It's not like I really have anything to add to this discussion (except to mention the Lord Darcy series-- fantasy/alternative history)-- but what you bring to this forum-- which I've only been exposed to since Jan-- is way better than these posers who keep hacking into it with pics of bathroom stuff as well as porno promos.

I only wish I was more informed in order to participate in some of your discussions!

Cynthia