Thoughts on "The Holy Grail"

[shaxper]

There's no doubt that the idea of owning the first ever appearance of Usagi Yojimbo is super appealing, nor that there is a maximum of 2000 copies in existence, making it super scarce. Yet, about a year ago, when I first found this site and resolved to find a copy of this super rare treasure, I watched two copies pass on ebay and recieved an offer from a private collector selling one, all in the same first month of searching. Yes, there are only 2000 copies (assuming all of them have survived), but I guess the real question is whether there are 2000 people out there willing to pay $400-$1000 for a copy. The fact that they're still being bought and traded suggests that there aren't. In that same month, I went looking for Gobbledygook #1, and never found a single one. Each of those is locked away in private collections by fans who would never dream of parting with one.

I guess my point is simply that "The Holy Grail" is a bit of a false notion. Albedo #2s are out there, and I even had an opportunity to purchase a VF one from a reputable seller for around $200. Maybe it's because Usagi, while well loved by his fans, is still a bit of a cult phenominon, not recognized nor understood by general comic fandome. After 15+ years of publication, I don't expect that to change either. The conclusion to my little search was that, with so many copies still clearly available (look at how many posts we have on this board about new ALbedo #2s popping up on ebay), the comic wasn't worth $200 to me. I've begun to wonder if the supply (assuming even 500 die-hard fans have stored 2 copies each, that still leaves up to almost 1000 copies somewhere out there) will eventually outweigh the amount of die-hard fans willing to drop $400-$1000, and we'll start to see prices drop a bit more.

I guess I'd be curious to hear estimates on how many die-hard fans out there own this issue, and how many are willing to pay for one too. I know Mr. Sakai personally owns a few copies, and I've no doubt there are some serious collectors out there with multiple copies. But I'd be curious to know how many people read Usagi total, and how many of those might be big enough fans to purchase a copy of the "Holy Grail". Usagi's popularity has certainly grown since his early Fantagraph appearances, but just how wide is his audience?

[miyamoto musashi]

when i saw the title, "the holy grail" , i though it might involve monty pythons quest for the, but now i know its not, and thus, i dont know...stuff...

HOORAY!

[Steve Hubbell]

... In that same month, I went looking for Gobbledygook #1, and never found a single one. Each of those is locked away in private collections by fans who would never dream of parting with one.

What is a "Gobbledygook"?

...I guess I'd be curious to hear estimates on how many die-hard fans out there own this issue, and how many are willing to pay for one too. I know Mr. Sakai personally owns a few copies, and I've no doubt there are some serious collectors out there with multiple copies. But I'd be curious to know how many people read Usagi total, and how many of those might be big enough fans to purchase a copy of the "Holy Grail". Usagi's popularity has certainly grown since his early Fantagraph appearances, but just how wide is his audience?

Some time back, an effort was made to see how many of the 2000 issues of Albedo #2 could be accounted for. Check the post below to read the posts of the people who contributed a reply.

http://www.usagiyojimbo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767

As far as how many actual readers of Usagi Yojimbo there are, who knows? You could probably get an idea from the average print run of the semi-monthly comic (minus the issues which comic shops order for back stock).
Then again, a lot of readers only buy and read the trade collections, so you could go by the print runs there as well.
But some collectors buy both the comic book and the trade collection, so a ratio would have to be figured.
Then there are the readers at the (constantly increasing) number of libraries which stock Usagi Yojimbo in the trade editions.
One estimate I like is looking every now and then at how many new members have signed up to the Usagi Yojimbo Dojo over a period of time.

Let us know when you figured out how to come up with an approximately acurate total...
Abayo...

[shaxper]

What is a "Gobbledygook"?

1st appearance of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Also exceptionally scarce and approximately as old.

Some time back, an effort was made to see how many of the 2000 issues of Albedo #2 could be accounted for. Check the post below to read the posts of the people who contributed a reply.

http://www.usagiyojimbo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767

Thanks for that. I'll check it out.

As far as how many actual readers of Usagi Yojimbo there are, who knows? You could probably get an idea from the average print run of the semi-monthly comic (minus the issues which comic shops order for back stock).
Then again, a lot of readers only buy and read the trade collections, so you could go by the print runs there as well.
But some collectors buy both the comic book and the trade collection, so a ratio would have to be figured.
Then there are the readers at the (constantly increasing) number of libraries which stock Usagi Yojimbo in the trade editions.
One estimate I like is looking every now and then at how many new members have signed up to the Usagi Yojimbo Dojo over a period of time.

Let us know when you figured out how to come up with an approximately acurate total...
Abayo...

I'm assuming that a fan who's serious enough about collecting to pay a fortune for the original first appearance also buys the regular issues. It wouldn't make much sense to only buy the GNs (or only read them at a library) but feel the need to spend a fortune on a single issue, just for the sake of having it.

Therefore, I'd suspect that we're looking at a fraction of the total amount of Usagi copies printed for a given issue. Assuming most of those go to individual collectors (not including people who buy doubles, or unsold copies that go into back issue bins), the remainder must be at least semi-interested Usagi fans. From that number, a significant fraction will probably be serious Usagi fans, but a significantly smaller fraction of that fraction will be obsessive Usagi collectors. Take that fraction of a fraction of a fraction, add the small number of Usagi fans that have stopped keeping up with the new issues but still might have their Albedo #2s from back in the day, and then figure in the potentially large number of collectors and retailers that may be holding on to a copy of Albedo #2 for investment potential. Add those three numbers together and you have an approximate answer.

Of course, I don't have numbers for any of this, but the print run for current Usagi issues would be a good start, since the final answer has only an exceptionally small chance of coming close to or exceeding that number.

[Todd Shogun]

I've thought about this once before, and I can only speculate as to the reason: Back in 1985, when Usagi was just another black-and-white boom comic, Stan and Steve Gallacci couldn't sell copies of Albedo #2 at the SDCC and resorted to giving them away. Or at least that's what I've heard throughout the years (actually there was something to the effect that they were even hard to give away!). Many dealers at the con acquired copies, as did many passers-by. Most of these issues probably went into storage in some con-goer's garage, or in a comic shop owner's basement. I do remember in the mid-to-late 80s when the issue soared in price it popped up at many dealer's tables with a $100+ price tag. That's how I landed a copy back in the late 80s. Not everyone out there has great taste in comics, so to let the issue go from a non-Usagi fan's hands was probably no big deal to most of theose who managed to grab one up as a freebie. I still believe to this day that the issues are trickling out. Now that we have eBay, it just makes it easier.

Now as far as the issue dropping in price...optimistic, but highly doubtful.
Regarding Gobbledygook, are you referring to the same thing advertised in TMNT #1 1st print? Was that actually published? If it was it was probably done so as a low-dist. fanzine with a much smaller print run than Albedo 2...more scarce because even less exist and it most likely never made it to a con or was widely distributed. Not even I have a copy of that and I was a die hard TMNT fan back in the 80s, nor have I even seen a copy. My TMNT history has aged, but I vaguely remember Eastman and Laird discussing the book in an interview somewhere....Now if you mean Gobbledygook #1 from '86.....

[Steve Hubbell]

What is a "Gobbledygook"?

1st appearance of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Also exceptionally scarce and approximately as old.

Oh oh, my secret is out... now everyone knows I didn't pick up on Usagi Yojimbo through the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I came from the other direction - Stan's involvement on Groo the Wanderer.

Actually, the only TMNT comics I've "ever" bought were issues that had stories featuring Usagi Yojimbo (ok, one issue was for a TMNT story, but it was drawn by Stan).
Abayo...

[shaxper]

Regarding Gobbledygook, are you referring to the same thing advertised in TMNT #1 1st print? Was that actually published? If it was it was probably done so as a low-dist. fanzine with a much smaller print run than Albedo 2...more scarce because even less exist and it most likely never made it to a con or was widely distributed. Not even I have a copy of that and I was a die hard TMNT fan back in the 80s, nor have I even seen a copy. My TMNT history has aged, but I vaguely remember Eastman and Laird discussing the book in an interview somewhere....Now if you mean Gobbledygook #1 from '86.....

The original version does exist, and is highly sought after. I too have the '86 reprint.


I agree with your idea of free copies floating around. Of course, that would inevitably mean that many were probably destroyed or stored poorly.

All the same, the general idea I'm making is that there does appear to be a surplus of Albedo #2s circulating, not in great quantities, but enough that clearly all copies have not ended up in the hands of die hard fans that will never resell them. Inevitably, considering copies of Albedo #2 and die-hard fans looking to pay $400 for them, one of these two things will run out before the other does. Right now, both seem to exist in healthy numbers.

[Todd Shogun]

I agree, but I also believe Holy Grail is the most appropriate term for the Book. Before eBay it was an impossible quest to obtain a copy. Check out the Untold Tales of Albedo NR 2 on this site for some examples (speaking to the audience because no doubt you've read it). eBay has just made the Grail a bit easier to come by. I can see Albedo NR 2's going for sale on eBay throughout the next 10 years, even beyond, as more and more people become comfortable trying to unload their stashes on the Net. But with all the die hards and those who want multiple copies, eBay prices will only go up or level off at the current range (feel like I'm talking about the real estate market in So. California!!!!)

[shaxper]

Ah, the good old days of collecting prior to ebay! Remember when it was simply IMPOSSIBLE to hunt down those special issues unless you went to a large convention and got lucky? I do miss those days.

In the age of ebay, national supply does tend to dictate going price though. Even a comic as rare as Albedo #2 can theoretically be made available in enough quantity to satisfy the need at the current going price. It still remains to be seen whether or not this will happen, of course.

[Steve Hubbell]

And to think that I found my copy in a "Half Price Sale" ad some comic shop ran in the Comics Buyer's Guide back in '98 or '99. That would have put the regular price at $50.00 - I ran across another copy in a semi-local comic shop going for around $30.00 -

Personnally, I think that there are a lot of small comic shops out there that have not "computerized" - they have not put their inventory into searchable databases and/or do not sell through Ebay or on the internet. They rely on Overstreet and Wizard for pricing and sell through ads in Comics Buyer's Guide and the occassional convention. Those are the shops where you find the really great treasures at decent prices.

My current "Grail Quests":
Westfield Newsletter from April 1993
Golden Apple Trading Card #9
any issues of Rowrbrazzle with "Ten Little Critters"

Abayo...

[Lemon]

There are other factors that you have to consider.

You might put up the money for some rare comic (lets say $400). A couple of months later, you lose your job, your wife gets sick, you get in a car wreck, and your mom dies... bad news all around. Suddenly, your $400 dollar comic is back up on Ebay... you'd like to keep it but you need all the extra cash you can get due to unfortunate circumstance.

Also, 2000 is still a fairly large number... very limited edition none the less... but think about it... you only see a few on Ebay every once in a while... some of those are the first time it's been sold, but some of them might have been sold, re-sold, and sold again... especially if you find one for cheap but you know someone who is willing to pay more for it.... that's still just a couple of auctions now and again.... that'd only account for a few comics each time, LESS if they have been re-sold.

So even if a lot of die-hard fans get a hold of them and keep them, they will still be in 'circulation' for a long long time... being sold and resold over and over again.